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In this episode of Wellbeing Interrupted, I had the privilege of speaking with Louise Butcher, a woman who not only survived breast cancer but also broke barriers by running the London Marathon topless after her mastectomy. Louise’s story is one of courage, self-acceptance, and advocacy. In this interview, we dive deep into her journey from diagnosis to becoming the first topless marathon runner, and how she’s challenging society's perceptions about body image and illness. 

 

Louise’s Breast Cancer Diagnosis and Decision for a Double Mastectomy 

Louise was diagnosed with breast cancer in April 2022, just three weeks after receiving a clear mammogram. Despite the initial reassurance of her scan, her persistence and self-advocacy led to further checks where cancer was discovered. After going through a series of tests, the decision for a mastectomy was made, and Louise shared how she had already started mentally preparing for the procedure. Her experience of learning about the cancer and the quick transition to surgery was an emotional rollercoaster. Louise’s approach to dealing with the diagnosis was resolute; she expressed the need to remove the cancer as soon as possible, focusing on saving her life. 

 

Facing Surgery: Overcoming Fear and Accepting a New Body 

Waking up to a flat chest after surgery is a deeply emotional experience for many breast cancer survivors, and Louise reflected on the complex feelings that came with it. It wasn’t just the physical change that she found challenging but the social perceptions and the pity she felt from others. For Louise, the journey of acceptance involved finding strength in her new body while navigating the societal stigma that can surround mastectomies. Her perspective shifted toward highlighting the positives of her transformation, a journey that resonated with many women facing similar experiences. 

 

The Decision to Run the London Marathon Topless Post-Mastectomy 

For Louise, going topless after her mastectomy wasn’t just a bold personal choice; it was an act of advocacy. By running the London Marathon topless, she aimed to normalize mastectomies and challenge society’s standards of femininity. She believed that her ability to perform a physically demanding task like running a marathon would demonstrate strength and capability, regardless of physical appearance. Louise’s decision was rooted in a desire to break down stigma and help others see that a body post-surgery is still capable of incredible achievements. 

 

How Louise Managed Public Perception and Fear of Judgment 

Navigating public perception can be daunting, especially when making a bold statement about body image. Louise shared her initial fears about judgment and pity from others, but her experience proved that the majority of responses were supportive. She reflected on how the positivity far outweighed the negativity, and the encouraging feedback from the public reinforced her belief that her message was making a difference. Louise’s journey is a testament to the power of vulnerability and authenticity in overcoming societal barriers. 

 

Embracing Transformation: Life After Breast Cancer 

Louise’s journey didn’t just change her physically—it transformed her entire outlook on life. The diagnosis made her reevaluate her priorities, teaching her the importance of living fully in the present moment. Prior to her diagnosis, she had lived with anxiety and fear, but cancer shifted her perspective, pushing her to embrace the now. This newfound perspective led her to take on more challenges, including planning an ultra-marathon in the future. For Louise, life after breast cancer is about living without regrets and seizing every opportunity. 

 

Advocacy and Empowerment: Louise’s Message to Women Post-Mastectomy 

Louise’s message to women facing mastectomies is one of empowerment and self-acceptance. She believes that reconstruction is not necessary to feel whole and encourages others to embrace their authentic selves. For Louise, the journey of healing is about recognizing that strength and womanhood are not tied to physical features. She also emphasized the importance of support from partners, while acknowledging that not everyone has the same experience. For women whose partners may struggle with the idea of a flat chest, Louise reinforced the importance of making decisions based on personal empowerment. 

 

Connecting with Louise Butcher: Guinness World Record Holder 

Louise’s advocacy extends beyond her topless marathon run. She now holds a Guinness World Record as the fastest woman to run topless post-mastectomy. Her advocacy work continues to inspire others to embrace their bodies and challenge societal norms. For those interested in following her journey, Louise is active on social media, where she shares updates on her future marathon plans, advocacy work, and personal life. 

 

Conclusion 

Louise Butcher’s story is a powerful reminder that illness doesn’t have to define us or diminish our strength. Her topless run at the London Marathon is more than an act of bravery—it’s a call to embrace life after illness and to challenge societal norms. 

 

If you’ve been inspired by Louise’s journey, connect with her on Instagram at @louisebutcher39 or Facebook at @Louise_Bernadette_Butcher. Let’s continue the conversation, break the stigma, and live life fully, no matter the hurdles. 

 

Show Resources

• Podcast Website: Wellbeing Interrupted
• Follow Lousie on Instagram: @louisebutcher39
• Follow Louise on Facebook: @Louise_Bernadette_Butcher
• Wellbeing Interrupted Episode 3: Your Mindset is Everything: The Key to Thriving Beyond Health Challenges
• Wellbeing Interrupted Episode 13: Chronic Illness Trauma: Three Steps to Protect Your Physical Wellbeing

 

Transcript Episode 20. Hurdle2Hope®️ Stories: Meet Louise Butcher, Topless Marathon Runner

[00:00:00] Teisha: Hey there, Teisha here, and welcome to Episode 20 of Wellbeing Interrupted. This is our first international guest, Louise Butcher, and she truly embodies Hurdle2Hope. You see, I came across Louise's story on the ABC News, and I thought, A whole heap of social media posts. As you see, Louise became the first topless marathon runner to complete the London Marathon. 

[00:00:34] I loved chatting to Louise. Her story is incredible. Her reason for running topless. I'll let her explain that to you. But I am in absolute awe of her bravery and her commitment to breaking down the stigma to challenging body image and really encouraging all of us to embrace the differences that our illnesses create in our lives. 

[00:01:03] So enjoy this chat. We chatted for a while. I recorded for an hour. We then chatted for another hour. Offline, I guess. Um, but Louise is a gorgeous person. And I really hope you get lots out of this chat, whether you're living with breast cancer or any other illness. So enjoy. To Wellbeing Interrupted, the podcast dedicated to exploring the transformative power of a healing mindset. 

[00:01:36] I'm Teisha Rose, your host for today. and the founder of Hurdle2Hope. If you're on a quest to not just survive but thrive after a life changing diagnosis, then you're definitely in the right place. Living with MS and now stage 4 breast cancer has taught me a vital lesson. In the face of a life changing illness, our mindset is Everything. 

[00:02:03] Each week I'll share insights, tips and strategies to help you build a happier, healthier, more balanced life. So let's begin your journey from hurdle to hope starting right now. Okay, so welcome Louise to Wellbeing Interrupted. I'm so excited to actually meet you. Um, as you've been on our TVs quite a bit and on social media over the last few weeks by creating this awareness of. 

[00:02:36] People living with breast cancer and going through mastectomies and your image running the London Marathon, topless, was incredibly powerful. And I've spoken about it to oncology nurses, to my hairdresser. So your message is getting here to us here in Australia. So welcome.  

[00:02:58] Louise: Thank you for having me on, Teisha. 

[00:02:59] I'm really excited actually because I love talking about um, the journey because it's obviously empowering so many people and I love the fact that people like you and and everybody who sort of accepted the journey and spread it around have jumped on board as well because I think that's just so important for the message getting out there. 

[00:03:20] Teisha: Yeah, absolutely. And we should say from the outset, it's one flat chested woman chatting to another flat chested woman. So we've both had a very similar experience. Although even before having MS, there's no, I wasn't into running. So what you're doing is unbelievable. And I can't use MS as an excuse for not doing that. 

[00:03:42] Because running was never my thing. So I'm in complete awe of what you've done.  

[00:03:48] Louise: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I think the running as well is really important because the reason why the running and the topless to me worked was because I thought the cancer, the breast cancer, the breast, the mastectomy was kind of looked at on a negative, in a negative way, whereas running isn't. 

[00:04:07] It's looked on as powerful strength. Yeah. Determination, Resilience, and I thought the two together is something you don't usually see, you don't see that connection. So I thought let's do that connection and that's kind of how The running and the topless running came about really.  

[00:04:27] Teisha: Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. 

[00:04:29] Um, it's such a powerful message. Um, so, and so courageous because it's, it was hard at the beginning, even to tell people now, you know, flat chested, let alone show people that I'm flat chested.  

[00:04:46] Louise: Yeah, what I found really interesting is I kind of used myself as a guinea pig with the topless running. Yeah. 

[00:04:52] Because I found it interesting that as a person who'd gone from having breasts to not having them, I was, it wasn't the feeling that I had with not having them, it was the feeling of other people's perception of me not having them. Yeah. So I knew it was a social norm and a stigma that was affecting the way I felt negatively about it. 

[00:05:11] So if, if there wasn't any judgment or any perception or anybody feeling pity for someone who's lost their breath, I think I'd have been fine with being flat chested, because as we were talking about earlier, there's quite a lot of positives for it. Yes. And I actually quite like it. But it was the thought of feeling that there was pity thrown on me and the perception of, oh, well, you're not a woman, you're not feminine, oh, you need to put some back. 

[00:05:35] that I knew it was, it was the outside stigma. And that's why I thought, well, if we show the flat chest, if we show the mastectomy out there in a, in a form rather than a picture. So we see that person running, doing things, living the life, then the normalization will begin and then the stigma will be reduced. 

[00:05:56] which will then entail in years to come, hopefully not that many years to come, the fact that when a woman does have to make that choice, she'll have some positives and also she will see that the actual perception of it has changed. So then it's not about what other people think, it's about what that the woman thinks, which is really important. 

[00:06:16] really important.  

[00:06:18] Teisha: Um, if we just take a step back, you would die. When were you diagnosed with breast cancer?  

[00:06:24] Louise: So I was diagnosed in 2022. So it was about two years ago, April, 2022, which was three weeks after I'd had a mammogram, a clear one. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So we in, um, in England, we have, um, we called upon the NHS. 

[00:06:41] I think it's from like the age of 49 for a mammogram screening and I hadn't been called up. I used to suffer with health anxiety on and off during my life quite significantly so I was always worried I had some disease and so I used to book pay for private mammograms. I only had two but I had them because I just wanted to make sure even though I didn't have any symptoms and I'd gone for a mammogram and it came back clear. 

[00:07:10] And because I'd had the mammogram, I really had a good delve, like a good feel. So I found, I mean, I used to do the, the check-in. Yep. But I felt like, right, I've got a baseline. Now I'm totally clear of breast cancer, so I'm going to delve right in there so I know what to go from. Every month I'll know if there's a change. 

[00:07:31] Yeah. And that's when I went right in and I felt like a tiny little thickening, like a tiny little, it wasn't like a round circuit, like a thickening. Attached to something else. Wasn't worried. Went to the GP. She wasn't worried. But because of my health anxiety, she sent me to the breast clinic for peace of mind. 

[00:07:51] And that's when they found the cancer. They found it on an ultrasound, not monogram.  

[00:07:59] Teisha: Wow. That's such a neat just that is such an important message. Just that bit. Yeah.  

[00:08:04] Louise: Really important. The adv the sort of advocacy of like I got a clear scan, but I still wanted to make sure myself. So the whole, knowing what your breasts are about, knowing how they feel, even if your mammogram comes back clear. 

[00:08:21] I think because the type of cancer I had, which was lobular, which actually is the second most common breast cancer. Yeah. Um, so well on, on Scums because it grows like a little spider's web. So instead of forming a mass.  

[00:08:37] Teisha: Because it  

[00:08:37] Louise: has no stickiness. It hasn't got a glue to stick it together. It's, it's, it's lobster gene which sticks it together. 

[00:08:43] It grows outwards in lines and, and then it weaves in and out the tissue so it's not showing up on the mammogram, which  

[00:08:50] Teisha: is quite scary. Yeah. That's really scary. And who would've thought this as? We're doing a bit of a public announcement about our breasts. Yeah. I had really dense breasts and that's why I wouldn't, I had no idea. 

[00:09:03] It was like, how do you know? Yeah, I don't, I haven't felt anyone else's breasts to compare. No, there's not a conversation.  

[00:09:08] Louise: It's not, is it, you don't talk about dense breasts, but that is an actual Yeah, that's one of the reasons, not even with lobular, with any type of breast cancer, the dense breasts. 'cause it does show up. 

[00:09:18] I think you just think mammograms are really like, it does say that they're not 100%, but you kind of do put a lot of weight to them, don't you, and think, well, this is set, I'm clear, so I'm fine.  

[00:09:28] Teisha: Yeah, and it just shows you really have to advocate for yourself in the medical system, you know, wherever you live in, whatever country, it's if we feel something's not right, then we push to have it tested even more. 

[00:09:40] So, thank goodness you did. Yeah, I did, yeah. Once you found out you had breast cancer, how quickly did the whole mastectomy conversation happen?  

[00:09:52] Louise: So that was quite, um, it was a bit of a rollercoaster that because, because it was lobular and it doesn't grow in a mass, the surgeon was worried that she wouldn't get clear margins with a lumpectomy. 

[00:10:05] So initially she said lumpectomy radiotherapy. And, um, I kind of had said, I don't want a lumpectomy. I want both her breasts off, get it, get, Because as soon as I got told I had cancer, I was like, uh, these are killing machines, let's get rid of them. I'm not bothered and I literally said, she said, no, we can't do a double mastectomy. 

[00:10:24] Um, let's look at lumpectomy. So we went down that road and then I had an MRI scan which showed up less cancer than the ultrasound did. So she was like, no, we're going to have to do a mastectomy. because we don't know where it is. We don't know, we can't see half of it. Some of it's showing here. So when they did the mastectomy on the left breast, which had the cancer in, it was five centimeters, which was way bigger than the scams are shown, which is really common with lobular, really common. 

[00:10:53] Um, cause I've done a lot of research on the, um, sort of forums for lobular breast cancer and most women get the, when they have the mastectomy find it's a lot bigger. Um, then the scans. So that was that. So I've had that taken off and I said I cannot cope with one boob. There's no way that I can walk around and think that this is all right and I kept not being able to look at the actual boob. 

[00:11:23] I could look at the scar really easily, that didn't affect me at all, but I couldn't look at the boob because it was three things that reminded me of what I'd lost on this side. I thought it was going to be as well because if I didn't see it in that one, how is it going to be? How do I know it's in the other one? 

[00:11:38] And how on earth to feel like fully complete when you're lopsided and so it was like this is not working and it took me eight weeks to, I just constantly said I can't cope, I can't cope, I can't cope until she agreed and it wasn't just the surgeon, she had to get a whole group to agree and that was only because they had to go back in on the left side to get clear, clearer margins because it was so up against the wall. 

[00:12:10] And by Mental Health, she took the right one off at the same time. But there's so many women that I've spoke to who cannot get that done. Yeah,  

[00:12:21] Teisha: I was exactly, exactly the same as you. In three and a half weeks, I went from one done to the second one. I was the same. I was like, I was standing in front of the mirror. 

[00:12:32] I'm like the same thing. This reminds me of what I no longer have. And I stood there and I was like saying to Andrew, it's useless. What's it doing there? It's just hanging there. And I thought, let's just do it. And I actually had a retreat booked, um, in six weeks when I went and saw the surgeon and I said, any chance of being flat chested so I can go to the retreat and start healing? 

[00:12:57] And she said, if you're ready, let's do it. So my decision was for the retreat and it was the best decision I made because it was like, right, so  

[00:13:05] Louise: much.  

[00:13:05] Teisha: Let's just do it. And it is, it's easier when you're flat compared to matching. How do you match? Like, I don't  

[00:13:13] Louise: know. And also when they give you the fake boom, that never fits. 

[00:13:17] And you're like, you're self conscious cause you don't know if it's gone up down. Whereas when you've got nothing there, there's nothing to be self conscious about because nothing's moving around. And I also felt as well that when I had, the flat chest and I'd spoke to women who'd had reconstruction that they couldn't feel the boobs because they're implants you can't feel them and they felt disconnected to it whereas I can feel all my scars all my chest nerves have come back so even though there's no like lump there it's I can feel it and it's me so I don't feel detached that's another thing that I find with people who've had reconstruction who aren't happy with it that they feel detached to it. 

[00:13:58] Teisha: That's interesting. And I didn't have a choice because having MS anyway, they said reconstructions out of the equation because of the risk of infection, my body wouldn't cope. So it was sort of bored because I then it's like, well, I know what I'm doing. Let's do it. You know, so no, no decision made, um, which is good. 

[00:14:18] Wow. That's brilliant  

[00:14:20] Louise: as well that you managed to get that done. in that matter time because obviously they only did it for me because to go back in they were doing that anyway but you managed to get that because there's so many women don't get it and they have to have counselling to make sure that they're in the right state of mind. 

[00:14:37] That's what I've found. I know because apparently at the time that you are told you've got cancer because you're so worried about the cancer you're not thinking straight um and you don't really know your own mind and I was like I knew exactly what I was thinking I knew exactly I wouldn't regret it. I don't know where that comes from. 

[00:14:56] I don't know. I don't  

[00:14:57] Teisha: No, no, no. Um, I was no regrets for me. You know, I just thought, I just feel, and we talk about empowerment and how empowering is that to say, right, you know, this one was fine. I'm doing, we're using our hands a lot around our chest. No one will see it. I'm like this one and I'm  

[00:15:17] Louise: was fine. 

[00:15:18] It's so weird, but what I find Really interesting, and you probably think the same. It's when the cancer came along, it was out of our control. And I feel that the whole sense of, no, this is my decision, this is my control. I want to be flat. I know this is the right thing for me. gives you back that little bit of empowerment and control over your body, isn't it? 

[00:15:46] Because at the end of the day, you wouldn't choose to have your breasts taken away, but there's a reason why it's going to save your life, or it's going to make your life longer, or whatever reasons, and you're going to do that, but it's still not your choice, is it? So I think the whole taking away that woman's choice, especially some surgeons that I've read about, who actually leave skin there, Slaps because they think when the woman's woken up, she's going to change her mind down the line and have reconstruction. 

[00:16:13] Is, is taking away that, that control that you've got that little bit left, which I think when you've gone through the awful journey of when you've got no control is really, really important at the end of it.  

[00:16:26] Teisha: It is. And you are, you're taking your power back and it's like, there's my body, there's my choice and it's what I want to do. 

[00:16:32] So, um, yeah, absolutely. So how did you feel like when you. Wake up from the surgery. Um, and I think this is important to chat about because we talk about the decisions before a surgery for us, mastectomies or whatever else it is for people. And then it's that moment when you're by yourself, you're waking up and it's like, and I know I'd like took a little peek and I was like, Oh, I don't know if I want to look. 

[00:16:59] And then I was like, said to surgeon, no, I don't want to yet. And the next day, I looked and I'm like, Oh, I'd already seen that. So I spent the night imagining it being worse than what it was. So how did you sort of cope with that? Yeah,  

[00:17:11] Louise: I think, I think I'd looked at quite a lot of pictures before I had the surgery. 

[00:17:15] So I kind of knew what it looked like. And I knew, I'd known in the past, cause of my health anxiety, what mastectomy looks like, cause I used to always delve into all sorts of torturous things that I thought were maybe tortures. I kind of knew, I was never, it was not something that I was shocked by. I think what shocked me more than the actual looking at the mastectomy afterwards was when, when I went into surgery and they drew the arrow. 

[00:17:40] Did you have the arrow to show which breast? Now that made me feel really weird. And I think that was just, that was really, because she said we have to make sure we get the right one, obviously, when they took the left one. She just drew an arrow down to it. And that was just so like significant to me. It was like, This was me and it's just an arrow. 

[00:18:03] This one of these taken off. It was weird. Yeah. If that was worse than seeing the scar or seeing that there was nothing there. Well, I think I've got used to the idea it was going to be taken away. And once it was taken away, it didn't matter what it looked like. I was fine with that because I knew it was going to be flat plausure. 

[00:18:20] I think if I'd have been left with hanging skin or things like that, I would have been unhappy, but because I knew she was going to do it really flat to the chest. I kind of knew what that was going to look like, so it didn't really bother me. It was the whole, the arrow towards the and I think because it's diseased as well, part of you has become diseased. 

[00:18:39] That's quite Yeah, it's not nice to see. It's not nice, is it? Especially a breast. Yeah. I mean, I've thought any part of your body is not nice to be diseased, but I don't know if it's because it was in that way, the perceptions of it being sexual, um, you know, that sort of thing and it's diseased and it was supposed to feed your babies and now it's diseased, that kind of. 

[00:19:00] But the scandal, it didn't bother me. It wasn't, it, I never looked at them and went, oh, it was more what other people thought of. It was more the pity that I didn't want, which is why the marathon came into it, because it's like, how can you pity someone who's running a marathon? It wasn't me, it was what I thought, oh god, everyone feels sorry for me. 

[00:19:21] Everyone, even with the cancer, I was like, oh my god, they're all feeling sorry for me. Everyone thinks, oh god, she's got cancer. Oh my god, she's got no boobs. Oh, it wasn't ever what, how I felt.  

[00:19:31] Teisha: Yeah, that's interesting. And if that's how you're felt, I'm sure lots of other women and men who go through this deal as well. 

[00:19:39] What was interesting when I was going through all of these, you know, when they, a group of nurses came around for handover and it was like, you know, show us your wound and everything. And at the time there was the world championships of swimming going on. And I said, I'm just flat chested like they are. I said, they're powerful swimmers. 

[00:20:00] And I said, that's what I look like. And at the end of it, one of the nurse said, well, good luck with this swimming. And I said, no, I don't like swimming. I said, but I look like that now. And it's that perception, you know, like you're doing with running, you're looking powerful. You're taking that back, that power back. 

[00:20:16] And it's that perception now, which is amazing. And I think what you touched on earlier as well is we're defined. Losing your breasts does, I think, bring into this whole question of what defines you as a woman, you know, and I think that's where the emotions can really come into play because it's like, well, am I no longer a woman because I don't have breasts? 

[00:20:43] I mean, I know that's not the case. But do you think that's where people struggle a little  

[00:20:48] Louise: bit? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think that's a lot. That's definitely where it comes from. Definitely. And like you said, our whole world. If you look at gymnasts and swimmers, like they're really, like you say, no one's going, oh, I feel really sorry for her, she's got little boobs. 

[00:21:04] It's all, it's just very, yeah, so I definitely think it's to do with that. And also, over time, in the last sort of, Um, 50, 60 years, the breasts have It's not as I think in the 80s it was really bad, wasn't it? Where it was all breasts and cleavage and women and all. And it's all been sexualized because they were never meant to be sexual. 

[00:21:24] They were meant to feed babies. And if you go back to like years ago, women used to walk around, um, with them and they weren't looked at in that way. And I remember when I was doing my music, degree and I did my dissertation on the baka pygmies and they're like, um, a group who live in the rainforests in Africa and they just walk around with their boobs hanging out and no one's looking at them and that's kind of how we were really supposed to be but obviously it's not like that and society's changed whether it's for good or bad but yeah so that That's what really made me angry because I was thinking we've not only gone through breast cancer, but now we're having to fight the social norms of a society that's gone a little bit wrong with what breasts are. 

[00:22:10] And we're living with that as well after going through that journey. We've also got this massive journey, which is probably going to last the rest of our lives. Thanks very much. And I was like, Oh, I'm just not having this. And it, and it was a little bit like that because I remember the surgeon, Anna, she was, she was lady surgeon. 

[00:22:27] She was lovely. And she said, you need to have reconstruction, and I went, uh, do I? And she went, yeah. And I went, why is that then? And she said, from the research, it wasn't her opinion, from the research, your mental health will be negatively impacted. in the long run if you don't. Thanks. Wow. So I've got to go through invasive surgery. 

[00:22:50] I've got to, because I know a lot of it goes wrong. I know a lot of people choose to go flat in the end. I don't want implants. They can cause all sorts of immunity problems. And I just thought I've got to go through all that because of society. No, I'm not doing that. And that's when I thought, right, I think we need to change this because the rest of the world when I was checking all these sites out. 

[00:23:11] We're feeling the same. Yeah. And I just felt like we were a little bit, we were a bit, we weren't moving forward enough. There was kind of, here, there was just the odd little snippet on the telly here and there of a mastectomy. They'd go like this, and then they'd shut the, like, oh, oh, oh, and I'd be like, what the hell am I doing this? 

[00:23:31] And then they'd have the tattoos, which is great. I love the fact people have tattoos, but I still felt that was like covering it up, making something prettier, And I thought they were beautiful in their own right, because it saved my life. And so it was kind of like, oh, let's just get all that. We just get rid of that and move fully on and I'll run this marathon topless and let's just forget all that snippets of it. 

[00:23:53] Oh my God, it really got on my nerves.  

[00:23:56] Teisha: Yeah, that's amazing. And you know, it's courageous, but it's so important. I remember I was having my hair cut. post the, you know, both boobs off. And my hairdresser was saying that she saw an auntie's scar years and years ago, and she was sort of traumatized by it. She said, what happens if I end up looking like that with breast cancer and all? 

[00:24:19] And I'm like, do you want to see my scar? So I'm in the salon. Um, like no one else is just at her by herself. And I lifted my top to show her and she's like, Oh, Oh, and I said, well, you don't have to be, I said, you will never get breast cancer. You'll be fine. But don't fear having a mastectomy, you know,  

[00:24:38] Louise: so it's brilliant doing that. 

[00:24:41] And because. What I thought with the mastectomy, what I got scared of when I saw it on the telly years ago, it was on EastEnders, the show over here, was the trauma on the woman's face, not the scar. So she was looking in a mirror, this was about 25 years ago, she was looking in the mirror and oh my god, she was so traumatized, literally like crying, I can understand that. 

[00:25:06] Yeah. But that, it wasn't the scars that, I wasn't looking at the scars, I was looking at her reaction and that's what I sensed. With me, with my daughter, which is kind of why I started what I was doing as well, because when I was open with Pollyanna, she was five, and I went, oh, look at the scars, and I was really open and quite happy with them. 

[00:25:24] She wasn't in the slightest bit traumatized, but I imagined if I'd have been traumatized, and I didn't want to show her, and then one day I was putting maybe a fake breast on, going like this, and she saw when I was like, That would traumatize her. Yes. Yeah. And that's what it is. It's what you're passing on. 

[00:25:39] And I remember a few people when I started Topless running a year ago, oh, you're going to traumatize kids. I haven't seen one traumatized child because children take things as they are and they look at your face and they think, oh, she's running around. She's quite happy. Not really. Alright. She's got no boobs. 

[00:25:55] And then they move on. Yep. And, and I'm not in a room hidden going, oh, this is the, the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Oh my God, I'll never be a woman that would traumatize the child. And, and, and I saw it in the London Marathon as well. The children were just, they were just, they didn't adapt, don't they? 

[00:26:14] They adapt.  

[00:26:15] Teisha: Yeah, that's great. That's great. And I think it's interesting being part of some of the, I'm not part of many, you know, breast cancer groups or anything, but there's some women, like you say, won't look at themselves in the mirror or won't like I've put all the, I'm doing actions again, but I've put on all the gels and, you know, bio oil and all of that to help the And quite a few women are like, no, I can't do that. 

[00:26:42] And it's like, this part of my body has been through so much. It needs a bit of pampering. It needs some love, you know, so to ignore it, I think that's not fair on what it's done for me. And I know that sounds weird, but I have that type of  

[00:26:58] Louise: self talk. Yeah. That is brilliant. That's exactly how I feel. Yeah, that's so, it's so nice to hear someone else talk about that because that is, if you had a scar anywhere else, you'd do the same, you'd look after it, you wouldn't just ignore it. 

[00:27:12] Yes. And I think as well, when you think. I don't want to touch it. I don't want to look at it. It becomes even more detached to you, doesn't it? So it's never, you're never going to accept it. I think the acceptance is the key. That's why when I felt that the urge to go out and run and show people in, in a, in a sense of, I, I know you might not want to see this, but you're going to, you're going to see it. 

[00:27:39] Which I've got a lot of people say, Oh, that's a little bit disrespectful. And I've thought. At the moment, you might think that, but in the long run, you'll see that there's a reason for it. I'm not just doing it to, um, wind people up. There's a reason that has to change. And I think that the acceptance for me was that if I didn't think other people wanted to see it because they would be upset or think it's disrespectful, how on earth was I ever supposed to accept it myself? 

[00:28:10] Yeah, because if you think other people are going, Oh no, I don't want to see that. How am I supposed to look in the mirror and go, Oh yeah, I love this. So it was kind of like, well, let's go out and see how much there is of that, because there isn't actually that much. I think when I first started running Topless, I'd say on social media and you get your trolls on social media, people would tell you it wasn't there. 

[00:28:30] It was probably about 80 percent positive, 20 percent negative. And the negativity wasn't bad negative. It wasn't horrendous. It was just. the stigma. So in actual fact, the stigma was only about 20%. Wow. Which most women would probably think it's 100%. In actual fact, it was just a small amount. And now that stigma is getting less and less because the more, all my social media comments are getting more and more positive. 

[00:28:55] So it's probably like 98 percent positive now as we're moving and normalizing it. So yeah, I think that whole perception of, Oh no, this is not, no one's going to want to see this. is not true as you think. I mean, you always make things bigger in your head, don't you?  

[00:29:13] Teisha: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important for women or men going through breast cancer to see, but also like we were chatting about off air, um, before in relation to partners, husbands and friends and all for their reaction as well. 

[00:29:32] And yeah. Because I was really surprised some of the Nurses mentioned that, and the surgeon, you know, some husbands are funny about the decision and want to go through with a lumpectomy as, as opposed to having the full breasts removed and you think, but that might be jeopardizing your life. And, um, I'm so grateful for my partner when we were discussing it and probably the surgeon was pushing like you to have, you know, just the tumor taken out. 

[00:30:03] And he said straight up to her, you know, Teisha with her two boobs in an urn on the mantelpiece, no use to me. He's like, chop them off. And, and afterwards the same thing, she said, good call because it was larger than we thought, you know, and I mightn't have been able to get it all. And I was like, well. It was a good call. 

[00:30:22] It was a right call. Um, but if I hadn't had a supportive partner, maybe I wouldn't have made that call and maybe in five years time, things wouldn't be good for me.  

[00:30:32] Louise: Yeah, it's true. It's very true. Cause obviously your partner's quite very influential on, on, on the way you think. And my husband was similar to yours. 

[00:30:41] He was kind of like, I'll just go with whatever you think. Um, to be honest, I don't know. I wouldn't have asked his opinion. Quite stubborn in the fact that I was like, well, whether you think it's good or not, I'm still doing it. But he would, he'd support me whatever in, in what I do. Yeah, because yeah, it kind of just goes along with it because yeah, but I have, like you say, heard many stories of men leaving their wives when their children go flat and I just think what is going on? 

[00:31:16] It's awful. But yeah, I think it's definitely a big And in retrospect as well, men to me, with my journey and what I've done and the comments I get off men, I've gone up so much in my estimations as well because I've had so many comments of them saying how empowering it is, how I've helped their wives, I wish my mother would have seen this, because obviously men are connected by sisters, wives, mothers, so they're all, it's affecting them as well. 

[00:31:50] So yeah, that, hopefully, I'm hoping that's a small minority now, or it's getting smaller with the, with the husband. And there is still comments like that, like, oh, I remember Paul's boss, he's very, uh, matter of fact in, like, he's, I think his wife had a sort of boob job, and I think he's very about boobs, and he did say, oh, oh, she can have a free boob job on the NHS now. 

[00:32:19] And I just went,  

[00:32:20] Teisha: I don't know, I don't know. Yeah. And I think though the conversations, what you're doing though, is getting guys talking about it. And I think that's important. When, when Andrew picked me up from the hospital after the second one went, you know, it was a bit of a somber in, uh, car on the way home, a bit emotional. 

[00:32:43] And I said, Oh, I guess you can call me Tickless Teish now. And so that then was, you know, what we called. So then he was away for the weekend up at our block, sitting around with some mates and his phone rang, it was me. And he said, I said to them, don't worry, it's just Tickless Teish on the phone. And he said, they're all like, You can't say that. 

[00:33:03] And he's like, she named herself and then they're laughing and chatting about it instead of me being self conscious thinking, how am I going to bring this up? So we, what you're doing is amazing because guys can start normalizing it as well and chat about it. And I said, I want you to talk about it with your friends because start that conversation in case their wife goes through it, you know, and you can support them. 

[00:33:27] Louise: And people, is it one in seven women get breast cancer? I mean, that's quite high numbers. So someone's going to be affected down the line.  

[00:33:36] Teisha: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I guess though, they're not going to be, they can do their small bits in terms of having those conversations, but you bring it to a whole new level. 

[00:33:47] A whole new level. It's unbelievable because I just think, I've gone to walking around if it's hot on our property without my top and I think, oh, that's, you know, it feels great, but I thought, yeah, you're doing that with everyone looking like, are you a bit self conscious or like that first time you did it, were you? 

[00:34:06] Louise: No, not in the slightest. It was really, um, no, I wasn't. I think what happened on the, on the cancer journey, I think because I've had health anxiety for so long on my life, I've been fearful of things and worried I was going to die and there was so much going on. I wasn't really living, that the cancer turned all that around. 

[00:34:26] And when I'd gone into those surgeons office for results, and whether it spread and, um, it hadn't spread, but that waiting for that was the most frightening period in my life. Um, Everything since then is nothing in comparison. So the whole running around topless is like, no, it's like I've lost my fear of anything, of judgment, of, um, like I had my tattoos done. 

[00:34:52] I'd never had a tattoo before because I'd scared what people think. And it's just like, all that just goes out the window. Like you said, you just suddenly go, right, we've got to live for now. And I remember when I'm thinking and waiting for the results. thinking that it might have spread, because the surgeon did think it had at one point. 

[00:35:08] And I remember thinking, right, if I die tomorrow, I've done good things in my life. I've had kids, I've got married, I've been a teacher, I've done these things, but what have I actually done? What has actually empowered anybody? Who's going to remember anything I've done that's changed? And that was the reassurance I had in being, oh my dog's barking, sorry. 

[00:35:32] No, no, it's alright, my good dog. Being connected to something bigger than just me and this little bubble around me, reassured me a little bit more about death. So the death wasn't an end. It was like, if I die, there's something that carries on that I've done. And I know kids do that, and that's, but they are themselves. 

[00:35:54] They're not you. They're not what you were. They are them. You can't live through your kids. So it's kind of like, I need, it was kind of like seeking it because there's no reassurance in anything, is there? I mean, once you've been through cancer, you realize there isn't. It's all just a big facade of nothingness. 

[00:36:10] Um, and so the reassurance in that I had something that I was passing on and that's kind of like why the whole running around and not being self conscious. It wasn't, it didn't even come into my mind. It was like, no, this has to be done. And I actually felt empowered by being judged. The judgment made me feel alive because it made me feel like I was, I wasn't invisible, which obviously when you get to a certain age, I've gone through menopause, um, I didn't have any breasts, I was supposed to feel invisible, because that's how you're supposed to feel as a woman when you're of certain age, when you've gone through menopause. 

[00:36:44] Now I've got no breasts, oh my god, I might as well go over in that corner and hide. So in a way, being unsure for something that mattered, really made me visible and made me feel really empowered, because I was like, actually, no, I'm just totally pushing all these social norms that I am supposed to be living by over there. 

[00:37:03] And actually, it's not true. It's what you choose to be, isn't it? It doesn't matter what age you are, you can be totally visible. So that was a little bit like that. It was kind of like a bit, um, like, um, pushing against the system a bit. Rebel. Yeah, it was, it was like, felt quite rebellious. Yeah, that's, that was nice. 

[00:37:27] It was a nice feeling.  

[00:37:29] Teisha: Yeah. And that must. You know, um, set you up to feel that freedom and not worrying about what other people think, then that goes into other parts of your life too. So it does.  

[00:37:41] Louise: Did you get that as well?  

[00:37:43] Teisha: Yeah. Yeah, it does change, change you, you know, and it sounds cliched. Having MS definitely at a young age made you me, made me, Seize opportunities and not live with regrets. 

[00:37:59] So that was amazing, but because, you know, I was diagnosed stage four from the beginning, it was, wow, all of a sudden I've got to really consider my mortality and all of that as well. And that just changes your outlook. And it's true. Little things you think, I don't give a whatever about this. What, what does it matter? 

[00:38:22] And you're right. I don't care what people think. And it's. Like if we can pass it on to other people, so they don't have to go through something like cancer, but yeah, yeah, absolutely to say, well, life is short, you know, and you have to think about, think about your legacy. What are you going to be remembered for? 

[00:38:45] And for you to be remembered by someone who has embraced their difference, who's living authentically and empowering. others to do the same. That's amazing.  

[00:38:59] Louise: Yeah, I, I can't, if I, if I died tomorrow, I'd be happy with that. And I can say that truthfully, like, it's funny because before I got cancer, my one goal was, not one, but my main goal, because I had health anxiety, was to be healthy and to get to 100. 

[00:39:18] Safely, safe safely. And, and I, and I thought, I remember starting, I was dying already in the sense that I wasn't going anywhere. I wouldn't travel, I wouldn't go on an airplane in case it crashed. Um, I, I got a germ phobia. I stopped my kids playing, um, with other kids when I was young. 'cause there's germ phobia. 

[00:39:35] My kids are both DHD one got Tourettes and I, I'm a DHD. And I was just living in this bubble and it was, I mean, I might as well have been dead to be honest. And then the cancer switched it and I've jumped outta planes. I've gone, we've gone on planes. I've been like loving this plane journey. Oh, what? It crashes. 

[00:39:54] Oh well, whatever. It's just so weird. It's like it's switched something. So like turned me on to thinking I've got now and that's all I've got. There's no tomorrow, there's no next week. And a lot of Paul's family find that. hard. They don't like it. They think it's a silly way to live. And I'm like, I really hope you don't find out the way I found out that it actually isn't. 

[00:40:17] But I think some people just live the way they do and that's fine. But I just didn't like the judgment that I got because of the way that I live. And now, um, it's like you say, it's passed over to other areas of my life. So the authenticity in me and I've embraced my ADHD. I embrace my kid's ADHD. I took my son out of school because They were punishing him for his ADHD symptoms and, and I've had him born with me for six months. 

[00:40:45] We've gone out and about. So it empowered me to do that. I would never have done that. I'd have been so worried about what was going to happen and in the future. And now it's kind of like, well, I've got that time with my son. He's 13. When would I have ever got that time if he was in school? And so it's kind of like, yeah, it's, it's what works for you in that moment of time, isn't it? 

[00:41:08] Like you'll understand it's just, it's totally empowering.  

[00:41:11] Teisha: Yeah, absolutely. And I think people can be diagnosed with the same conditions, but your response defines your experience of that. Yeah. And I think you're a testament to that because You're living authentically, not worrying about what other people think. 

[00:41:29] And there's other women listening to this who are scared to go out, you know, who don't want to be shown or don't want to go through with the surgery. And to get that message across is so important because You know, we do, we have such a short life and why. Yeah. And when you think it's ridiculous that we worry about what other people think and that stops you from living the life you should be living, that's absurd. 

[00:41:54] I know when you think about  

[00:41:56] Louise: it, it's, it's absurd. But at the time before you've realized that, it, it just feels so, you feel boxed in, don't you? With, with it all, and then I, and the, the def, I definitely think it's when mortality hits you in the face. Because I remember thinking, Oh my God, I'm going to die. 

[00:42:14] And then all that came in that insignificance of did it really matter what people thought? Did it really matter that? What have I actually done? Why have I been doing this? And if I died, everyone would move on. It'd all move on without me. So what? And then it just sort of smacks you really hard in the face, doesn't it? 

[00:42:31] It's a really harsh teacher, isn't it? It is.  

[00:42:34] Teisha: It is. Drop our boobs off and then we'll learn. And then we'll live. But it's true. But it is, it's so empowering. And I think And what I actually say to other people as well is having MS, having cancer makes us different. So let's embrace that and have experiences we wouldn't be confident in doing otherwise. 

[00:42:57] So for me, in my twenties, I left a secure job to travel overseas by myself because I thought You know, I can do that because I've got MS, you know, and I need to prioritize my health and wellbeing, staying in my stressful job won't do that. So it's given me permission to live a life differently to what I assumed would be mine. 

[00:43:19] So that sort of prepared me a bit for cancer, I guess. And that's what, you know, you're doing as well. And you're instilling that in your children as well, which is amazing because they're not defined by their diagnosis.  

[00:43:32] Louise: Yeah, I think that's really important as well, especially like with, with ADHD because it's still got, there's still a lot to be, a lot of education to go on in schools. 

[00:43:44] But yeah, I think that, um, like it was funny when I was talking to Oliver yesterday, my 13 year old, and we were going out, we go out and about and we chat about stuff. And, He, because of his ADHD, short term memory is, the short term memory is not great, but long term memory is brilliant. And we were talking and he loves the fact I do topless marathon running and we, and he actually does a lot of my little videos, that are the funny videos that I do. 

[00:44:10] He's got really involved with it. Um, and I, and I remember saying something about the cancer and he went, Oh God, I totally forgot you had cancer. And I thought, Oh my God, that is a bloomin mazin. And I went, why do you think that is? He went, I don't know, I just totally forgot. And I went, so you forgot, so what was the significance of me running around topless with no boobs and all over? 

[00:44:33] And he went, well, I remember that, he said, because we're all, you do that all the time and it's like you and I, and it was so brilliant because I thought, oh my God. It wasn't traumatic for him. And I said, did you never worry that I was going to die? Because obviously I'd talked to him about it. And he went, no, I didn't. 

[00:44:49] And yet he can worry about really simple things like if the dog eats a grape, it's going to die. And he's like, really stressed about it. He went, no, it wasn't. It was the fact that. It was a long term, it wasn't a long term thing that you'd die, but it wouldn't have happened straight away like that. That's what he worries about, like the straightaway happening, but he had time to think about it. 

[00:45:10] But I just thought how amazing is that, that he has not got that, he's forgotten I had cancer, it was only two years ago. Yeah, yeah. And I just  

[00:45:18] Teisha: thought, wow, that's amazing. And that comes down to you as well, you know, that you're not behind by cancer. Because a lot of people and, you know, there's some amazing support groups out there, but a lot, there's other ones where people are defined. 

[00:45:34] By their illness. And I think that really stops you from moving forward sometimes because I'm happy if people forget I've got cancer or MS, because it's like, good, you're not seeing a disease, you're seeing me. Yeah, yeah,  

[00:45:50] Louise: definitely. And that's brilliant. And especially with a, with a, a young person. 

[00:45:56] Especially with your son, because you'd think that might be traumatic, but, and I haven't asked Pollyanna, she's seven, and she never really goes on about it. I mean, when I'm running around top, because it's normal to her, it's totally normal. I think they'd find it weird if I ran out with the top on now. 

[00:46:12] Teisha: Yeah. And they probably would find it more traumatic if you ran with your boobs out and topless, you know, 13 year old  

[00:46:19] Louise: boy is like, mom, I find it really interesting. I love, I've always loved sort of challenging things and analyzing stuff. And I feel like I've become this guinea pig of analyzation of myself. 

[00:46:36] And I find it, I just love it because I've always, I think everybody was. Do that door that they want to find out things and um, it's just a really. Lovely way to do it. Cause I always love running. Well, not always, but I've run from a mental health cause obviously that helped with the health anxiety. So I've been able to do something really good for the people and get the running out of it and get the freedom out of it. 

[00:46:59] There's so many good things that I do. It's not like, it's not like a chore. I love doing it. Yeah, so it's everything positive about there's nothing negative about running and then running topless, free, power, empowering others, spreading. It's all just brilliant.  

[00:47:17] Teisha: Yeah, it's what you're, you're meant to be here to do. 

[00:47:20] Louise: Yeah,  

[00:47:20] Teisha: I think, I think,  

[00:47:22] Louise: I think it's, it's one of the only times I feel totally authentic myself, especially when you're out and about in nature. And there's something about being topless in nature as well when the breeze is on your chest and you're running and the trees and all this breeze and then and then you kind of see other people with the tops and the and then and you look at them and they look and you feel like they are harnessed in awe and you're just this free. 

[00:47:50] Teisha: Yeah, it is. It is really freeing. I remember, you know, not that long after the mastectomies, I was cooking in the kitchen and I was topless because it was really hot. And I thought, Oh, I can be. And Andrew's like, I've been asking you to do this for years. And now you have them chopped off and now you're topless. 

[00:48:08] And I said, but it's more comfortable now. I  

[00:48:11] Louise: said it wasn't before. No, it's funny because when you are like flat and then. It seems quite absurd to think that you used to have to put a harness on, really, because that's what a bra is, isn't it? Yeah. To hold up these mounds of flesh, it seems really weird. 

[00:48:30] It's like, I suppose you go back to that childlike state of Because I suppose when you're nine, you couldn't imagine having to wear this thing to hold these things up. And that's kind of what you're doing, isn't it? Yeah. It's for comfort. Because there's no other reason why, well there is obviously in society wouldn't, wouldn't do around with, but it's for the comfort. 

[00:48:48] So when you haven't got that and you're not putting harnesses on, it's great.  

[00:48:52] Teisha: Yeah, and as we said earlier, we're going to be the envy of all women in a nursing home years to come. Because they're not going to be picking up our boobs from our, you know, laps. Yeah,  

[00:49:05] Louise: it was funny as well because when I was younger, they were my. 

[00:49:09] I didn't even wear bras, and I remember people saying, Oh, when you're 40, you're going to be around your ankles. And I was like, Well, I'm 50, but I haven't even gotten it. But it was funny because I was thinking when I hit my 40s, they did start to, they weren't like down here, but they were, I mean, they do age, don't they? 

[00:49:27] And I think they do age, yeah. Um, and then it was just really funny that I didn't even get to, No, in a good way, not have to experience that whole ageing on my breast.  

[00:49:40] Teisha: Yeah, that's right. That's right. So looking forward, what's, you know, the, the next challenge? Well, I, I sort of asked this, but I did see a video on your Instagram account saying you've signed up to something. 

[00:49:55] And I was like, Whoa,  

[00:49:57] Louise: Yeah, so what I'm thinking is this is next year. So I haven't actually filled in the form, but I am going to do the Ultra. And I'm, this year I've got a triathlon in nine weeks. Triathlon. Wow. Yeah, I know, but it's a small triathlon. Well, it's not the Olympic triathlon. It's like the, so you do 750 meters ocean swim, I think it's 25 miles on a bike and then five kilometer running. 

[00:50:26] So it's not the Olympic one because I'm not going to do that. So that one and then I've got another marathon which is the local marathon in October and then I'm doing a topless swim in November which is like a charity event because I do a lot for my charity here so it's a hospital charity and I do lots of events for them and that's become a ticketed event so that's about body positivity in women for all sorts of reasons why we go onto this private beach. 

[00:50:52] and we too, we can be topless or and we have a dip. It's kind of like that kind of empowerment. And then I was thinking I, I have to have something to aim towards that's better than I've done before in effect. So I've done four marathons now and I do struggle at the end with the sickness. I get sick and whatever, but I can do them and I just want to push myself that little bit more. 

[00:51:17] So an ultra can be anything over 26. 2 miles. So I suppose you could do 32 miles. That would be a render because it's a render skating to 26. 2. So Even more so it would be horrendous. It's like, I wanna push my horrendous, like let's just see how far I can push uncomfortable. I think that's what it is. It's the uncomfortable. 

[00:51:37] I like, yeah, I like being by choice. Mm-Hmm. So when I was trying to be comfortable was when I became insular and very scared. When I try to be uncomfortable is when I've got confidence because you think, well, I can be that uncomfortable in that. So I can be that uncomfortable here. So yeah, that's the next one. 

[00:51:57] So that's going to be next year. So I'm just pinnacling it down to like three that I might do, but they usually Trials Ultra, they're more running uphills and across country, which is way out of my comfort zone. So it's going to be next year. Cause there's no way I can do that this year.  

[00:52:14] Teisha: No, no, you need something for 2025. 

[00:52:17] So that's,  

[00:52:18] Louise: that's amazing. I always, I think as well, like. When you've been through a diagnosis, you do, I don't plan plan anymore. It's kind of in the moment, but I have to have something to work towards if I'm left not knowing that that's when my brain starts to ruminate. So I kind of like, it's got to be something. 

[00:52:37] So that'll be next year. But yeah, I'll do that topless as well. Cause most things I do now like that. with the top of steam to show the power and the  

[00:52:46] Teisha: strength. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great message. And I think even what you're saying now is when we do push ourselves out of our comfort zone, that is when we learn and grow and learn about ourselves and challenge ourselves. 

[00:53:00] So I think it's a great, you're filled with so many good messages for everyone, Louise. It's funny where  

[00:53:07] Louise: that came from though, isn't it? It came from  

[00:53:11] Teisha: a  

[00:53:11] Louise: drama. Yeah, yeah,  

[00:53:13] Teisha: yeah. And that's what, and that's another good, um, talking point as well. Maybe we'll do another episode, but, um, the, the trauma of what we go through. 

[00:53:24] So even though you're embracing what's happening and all as well, it's not minimising It's full on what we've been through, you know, so, and I mentioned earlier, you know, I lost my voice for 12 months and I think it's the trauma. And that was the only time I actually thought, Oh, okay. What I've been through is traumatic because I think you just push yourself and think, Oh, you know, that's fine. 

[00:53:49] I've had my body parts chopped off and it's all fine, but it is traumatic. You know, we've been through a lot.  

[00:53:56] Louise: Yeah, and that's, I think that's like you say, as well, like when people see the positivity I have, um, because I don't want to spread negativity, but it's not, it wasn't like that the day after I got diagnosed. 

[00:54:09] It's not like, oh yeah, I swam through the whole diagnosis. It was horrendous. Yeah. I had a horrendous time. It turned me into a shadow of a performer. It took ages to get to the point, um, where I was able to accept what, what I'd become kind of thing, you know, and it took a lot of work, but it I didn't want to get too positive and ineffective showing people that, oh yeah, I find it really easy. 

[00:54:37] And then people who were struggling thought, well, why am I not finding it easy? She is. Well, it wasn't easy and it isn't. It's really, really hard.  

[00:54:45] Teisha: Yeah. And I did an episode on an authentic mindset because I think sometimes we shy away of those authentic emotions and think, well, if I'm really scared or upset, that means I'm being negative. 

[00:54:58] Whereas I think you can be authentic, but still have a positive outlook and demeanor. And that's what, Just meeting you tonight, um, shows me, you know, you've got this positive outlook, but you're still authentic to your feelings and, you know, you feel them, but gosh, once you feel them and go sometimes into those dark places, then the light places are, You know, you embrace them even more. 

[00:55:25] You have this new appreciation for life. Definitely.  

[00:55:29] Louise: Yeah, the darkness really sets you. It's kind of like when I was in those dark places and then I came out and the tiniest things were joyous. Like just, yeah, we got, we have pink roses and I smell them and it was like, really taking notice of all these. 

[00:55:45] And I've read all this stuff before  

[00:55:48] Teisha: because I've  

[00:55:48] Louise: read stuff. I always, it's like I wanted to torture myself because I used to read stories like what has happened to me and go whatever. Like how would I cope? Just like a torture. I think I've always been that sort of person that tortures myself. And it's sort of cliche with that whole small things really make a difference, but they do. 

[00:56:07] And I still live by that now because I find myself less stressed living like that. Yeah, when I was so stressed by all these things that may happen in the future, when I lived in the future, it was so stressful. But I think as well with being ADHD, you can't live like that when you're ADHD, you have to just live in the moment. 

[00:56:25] And I realized that it took cancer to teach me that, that I've been living my life so stressed because there was always next week, or what's going to happen, what ifs, oh my god, worst case scenarios. But then the cancer taught me that you have to be in the now. And that's when I became less stressed with lives. 

[00:56:41] And Because it doesn't, it doesn't matter as long as you're here now in this moment, nothing really matters. Yeah. Otherwise.  

[00:56:51] Teisha: And that's really interesting as well, because lots of people listening will have one illness, but that doesn't make you immune from getting another condition. So you're, you know, balancing. 

[00:57:02] And what I've found as well is, and it sounds like for you, breast cancer has taught me more how to deal with MS, you know, I was embracing flat chested, but. I didn't want to use a walker to help me exercise. And I think, how ridiculous is that? I don't care what people think about me having no boobs, but I thought, what would they think me using a walker? 

[00:57:26] And it's like, wow, this is crazy. So me as, you know, a 49 year old with breast cancer has taught me, you know, to unpackage that and embrace my difference. So, you know, my legs, um, Great. And my chest doesn't look normal, but that's okay. It doesn't matter. You know, I want to embrace life. Yeah.  

[00:57:47] Louise: And that's what counts. 

[00:57:48] That's all that counts.  

[00:57:49] Teisha: Yeah, absolutely. Well, we could talk for ages. I don't even know. It's funny. It's recording. And it's like, Oh, forgotten. I've forgotten we've been recording. That's love. That's what I love about Social media and all is all of a sudden we get to connect and I loved your story. And, um, that's why I shared it with, um, you know, some followers because it's so empowering and. 

[00:58:17] Yeah, to have that message and if it helps those going through breast cancer, that's incredible, but also listeners with other conditions. Yeah. To be able to be empowered by your decisions and take control so we're not defined by, yeah, whatever cancer or whatever else has done to our bodies and to love our bodies. 

[00:58:40] You know, it doesn't matter that they're not perfect. Put that moisturizer on your chest. Don't be afraid to look at yourself in the mirror, you know, just embrace that. Um, but before we go, how can we connect with you? Um, because I love your Instagram account. So what is that? And I'll put it on the show notes as well, so people can. 

[00:59:02] Louise: Yeah, so my Instagram is Louise Butcher, 39. Okay. So Louise Butcher, 39. 39. And I have Facebook, which is Louise Bernadette Butcher. Okay, I'll put both of them. Yeah, yeah. And I think the TikTok account is, is is on one of those accounts. I think that's Louise Bernadette, B, the TikTok account, because I post on TikTok as well, because obviously TikTok sometimes is the younger generation. 

[00:59:30] So I really like that. Um, and that, to be honest, really does really well, so that, that's brilliant because it's going down the generations, which is exactly what it needs to do. It does  

[00:59:42] Teisha: because it brings a whole new level, doesn't it, when you're in your 20s or 30s going through this as well. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:59:50] You're not as sure of yourself, um, at that time and might be not with your life partner at that time. So it brings a whole new,  

[01:00:00] Louise: um, level. I think in the, in your 20s and 30s, you're probably going to have a different mindset about it. So it's really good to have that. Fantastic. The positive side.  

[01:00:11] Teisha: Yeah, so no, excellent. 

[01:00:13] So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for all you are doing. Um, yeah, as I said, I was just drawn to your energy and I wished you lived around the corner because I, I, I could follow in my, um, little cart as you run around.  

[01:00:29] Louise: Yeah, we're just all friends. Oh,  

[01:00:31] Teisha: yeah. But  

[01:00:32] Louise: you don't live around the corner, you live thousands of miles away. 

[01:00:35] It's really weird, isn't it? It's so weird when you see each other and you're like, Just can't get my head around the whole, how far away. I know,  

[01:00:43] Teisha: but how good is that? Like I just, I absolutely love it. So yeah. So thank you, Louise. And we will be in contact, I'm sure. But as I said, I'll put all your details on the show notes and I'll be also tagging you on Hurdle2Hope Instagram as well. 

[01:01:02] Um, so yeah, we'll, we'll get the message out there. So thank you. Thanks Teisha. Thanks. 

[01:01:14] Wow, I really hope you enjoyed that chat. Louise is such a gorgeous person. I'll put in the links her Instagram account. If you want to smile on your face every day, follow Louise on Instagram. It's Louise. Amazing. I chuckle, I laugh out loud all the time because even, even today she had a post about being, she was topless on a ride at a carnival. 

[01:01:45] You know, she's, she's so amazing and she brings such joy Joy to the world and I can't wait to do another episode with Louise because her insights are incredible and we need more Louises in this world because we are all going through different challenges without illnesses. But like Louise, let's embrace life. 

[01:02:11] Let's still find things to laugh about. Let's have fun. Let's take the most of our opportunities. So next week, I'll unpack a bit more about this episode because we covered so much. Also, if you haven't already, listen to Episode 3 of Wellbeing Interrupted. This covers what Louise and I were chatting about in relation to our mindset. 

[01:02:38] The episode is called Your Mindset is Everything, and I really talk about not just having a positive mindset, but the importance of being authentic. Then, if you want to catch up on some old episodes as well, Louise and I also chatted about trauma and the impact of trauma when you're dealing with a health challenge. 

[01:03:04] Episode 13, Chronic Illness Trauma. I talk about three steps to protect your physical well being when dealing with trauma in relation to your illness. So that's another good episode to catch up on. Okay, that's it from me. So have a great week and I can't wait to chat to you some more. Bye.